Otar Ioseliani: “No Aragva will rustle for anyone anymore!”
(Oleh Shynkarenko, interview for the newspaper “Delo”, 2008)
Otar Ioseliani is a director of worldwide fame and significance. Therefore, it is not surprising that they decided to name one of the auditoriums of the huge Kyiv Multiplex cinema after him. When in October 2008 I entered the room of the Hyatt Hotel in Kyiv, where the maestro was giving another interview, Ioseliani shouted after the previous journalist: “Wait! You haven’t finished to drink your Borzhom! It is very useful and, by the way, is prohibited in Russia. You should drink it for that reason at least.”
- Cinema is the most capital-consuming art form. French director Chris Marker prided himself on making films “for the price of shoelaces.” How expensive are your films?
- They are quite inexpensive. The most expensive film “In Vino Veritas!” cost five million euros. Painting “Robbers. Part VII” — four million. On a European, and especially on an American scale, this is nonsense.
- Is it easy for you to find money to shoot films?
- It’s very difficult, but fortunately I don’t do this. There is always a producer who finds the money.
- Do your films pay off?
- In no case! Perhaps this will happen in fifty years.
- After emigrating to France in the late 80s, do you shoot all your films only there?
- No. I partially filmed “Robbers” in Georgia. Also in 1994, I made a big documentary film “Georgia Alone” in my homeland.
- The great director Buñuel shot almost all of his films in Mexico because it is cheaper. Where is it cheaper and more practical from an economic point of view for you to shoot?
- A joke is very appropriate here! When under the USSR a Jew began to be released from Russia, he was asked: “Where do you want to go?” and offered the globe. He turned it this way and that, and then said: “Don’t you have any other globe?” It’s not cheap to film anywhere.
- In the film “Robbers”, soldiers and tanks suddenly appear on the streets of a peaceful city, a shootout begins, but passers-by do not notice any of this. If you had to make the film again, how would you remake this episode in connection with the recent events in Georgia (in 2008)?
- I wouldn’t re-shoot it. You know, if I wanted to make fun of the Russian army, I would film how they unscrew toilets in apartments and take out mattresses, pillows, put all the stolen goods on tanks and take them away to God knows where! I would film how Russian army soldiers walk around apartments and say: “Look! — that’s what they say. — Fucking beds! They have pillows, damn it, and we’re like fucking hobos, fuck!” I saw all this in a documentary filmed by a Russian officer with an amateur camera and sold to a Georgian journalist for half a liter of vodka.
- Some Georgian artists reacted very painfully to Russian aggression and are canceling their concerts and performances in Russia, refusing prizes, titles, orders. Are you doing the same?
“It’s indecent for me to go to Russia for any reason now.” And even more so — to talk about art there. Everything has its limit. A small offense by the Russian administration disrupted a lot in the relationship between the Georgian and Russian intelligentsia. And it will never be possible to restore this.
- Even the artists quarreled?
- We didn’t quarrel. But they will no longer receive any spiritual baggage from us. There will no longer be any “The darkness of the night lies on the hills of Georgia, the Aragva rustles beneath me.” (a famous Russian poet Alexander Pushkin poem about Georgia) No Aragwa will rustle for anyone anymore! It’s a done deal and a turned page.
- Are you going to refuse to use the Russian language as a sign of protest?
- In no case. This is a wonderful language! He absorbs the whole world. For example, do you know what Russian word “shantrapa” (hobo) is? This is a French expression meaning “not fit to sing.” When a bel canto teacher came to St. Petersburg a couple of centuries ago, parents brought their children to him. If a Frenchman liked the voice, he said “chantra” (will sing); if not, he said “chantra pas” (will not sing). Since then, people who are useless for anything have come to be called that. However, those in power do not know how to speak Russian: they bark, groan, and moo.
- The symbol of the young man of the 1970s in the USSR was Gia from your film “Lived Once a Song-Thrush” — a musician always in a hurry and never getting anywhere. But our time seems to be symbolized by Seryoga Bodrov from Russian Balabanov’s film “Brother”. Do you agree with this?
- I have not seen this film, and I have never used any symbols in my life.
- How deep is the conflict between Georgians, Ossetians and Abkhazians, and who is to blame?
- Only the Russian administration is to blame for everything. Gagra, Sukhumi, New Athos, Ochamchire are very good regions. You can build dachas there, which is what the Russian military-industrial complex, represented by its generals and senior officials, is doing. They really want to have their own Russian “Riviera”, so they grabbed it for themselves. After all, Georgia broke away from the USSR, now they need to grab at least a piece for themselves. By the way, the indigenous population left these countries. Almost half a million Georgians lived in Abkhazia, and there were about 70 thousand Abkhazians at that time. Who do you think lives there now? But they could not restore the ruins because they were not sure whether it was necessary to do so. After all, the territorial integrity of Georgia was signed by the Russian administration, and now they have unilaterally recognized the independence of the territories. The next step will be to crush the local population. They will destroy the Abkhazians to the end.
- Assimilate?
- No. They will destroy threm! They will remain somewhere on the margins, in the minority. Abkhazia is just a bogeyman. It does not exist as such: all of Georgia was once called the Abkhazian kingdom. It was Stalin who artificially separated Abkhazia. There is not even such a nation — Abkhazians. The Abazgs live there, who came from beyond the Caucasus ridge. They were received hospitably, and Stalin called them Abkhazians. And we lived peacefully all the time, but they had to tear everyone apart, quarrel, send in troops! By the way, there were a lot of Ukrainian soldiers during the capture of Abkhazia in 1991. It was full of Ukrainian rudeness! There were also Kazakhs and Chechens who played football with human heads. They ripped open the bellies of women, put tires on them and set them on fire. It was a terrible war. Not even a war, but the destruction of a people.
- What is the best tactic for Georgia now under conditions of partial occupation and a possible repeated military invasion by Russia?
- For such a small country it is very difficult to foresee any tactics. I am equally disgusted by both Russian and American troops. After all, Americans don’t do anything for nothing. If they come, they will sow disgrace, rudeness and debauchery. They will bring their McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, whiskey and other rubbish, including their characteristic illiteracy and naivety. And the Russian army is just a rude rabble! And what choice do we have?
- Turn the other cheek in a Christian way?
- No way! Turn the other cheek and they will immediately slap it!
- All your films are translated into Russian by a person with a slight Georgian accent…
- I translate this myself. Good Georgian accent. There are people who speak Russian without an accent, but they have nothing to say. I have an accent, but I know what to say.
- Do translations into English and other languages also have a Georgian accent?
- Yes, sure.
